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Timothy Muirhead 2:47
Nice. So I don’t know if you to know Bob Hein? But he was the sound supervisor on The Royal Tenenbaums. And he was a guest on our show many years ago. I asked him about working on that film. And what he said was that Wes was great.
Bob Hein 2:59
He knew exactly what he wanted. And he asked for the whole universe. Wes wants everything imaginable at the mixing stage. And a lot of it, he doesn’t keep but he knows what he wants to try. So he has a gigantic imagination, as we all know, he would spend all day at the mix. We’d listen to everything and decide yea or nay, you know, because there was a lot. And it’s a simple, it’s actually a simple film. And it didn’t call for a lot of sound. So we chose carefully what to keep in it All I know is we had a really good time.
Timothy Muirhead 3:39
So that’s what Bob Hein said, I was wondering if in the years since is Wes’ process still the same? Do you still have to bring everything to the mix stage possible.
Wayne Lemmer 3:47
Um, actually, it’s a little bit different. Our workflow is evolved over the last couple of films. Now basically, I’m in contact with them all the time, we kind of work in sections, we don’t do the whole film. So like, I’ll just work on a couple minutes section. And I’ll send them a quicktime. And he’ll give me notes. And then you know, we go from there. So there’s not a lot of surprises when we hit the dub stage anymore, because we do so much work before that time,
Chris Scarabosio 4:14
kind of make a cursory pass, you know, West kind of digs in and we start kind of really getting into the finalization of it and trying trying various things.
Wayne Lemmer 4:26
Definitely a good experience. You know, it’s always a fun creative time there with Wes. And he’s very involved, you know, he’s there until we’re done and we’re just there all day just kind of playing with stuff. And yeah, I
Unknown Speaker 4:38
mean, Wes is is fully committed, you know, some mixes you go and directors come every once a week or maybe twice a week or whatever. But Wes is definitely he’s, he’s all in and he definitely likes to, to play around on certain scenes. And you know, like Wayne was describing, you know, they they work a lot of stuff out in advance so it kind of, uh, you know, music is usually the last thing to show up that kind of can change how, you know, everything plays against each other. So
Wayne Lemmer 5:11
he does experiment a lot with the the music and the orchestration. And it’s certainly an exploration of time for music,
Chris Scarabosio 5:18
of trying to remember on not FRENCH DISPATCH, but there’s been a couple times where the end credit music becomes like, its own mix. In a way, it’s kind of new. And he starts digging in, like, what was it on?
Wayne Lemmer 5:33
Grand Budapest?
Chris Scarabosio 5:34
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, I mean, a lot of them. He’s kind of, he’s just starts like diving into, like, what if we try this and try that. And I know, we’ve spent days on the end credit music on a couple of movies. Just kind of funny. But I think it’s because it’s kind of now that the main thing is done. You know, let’s have some fun and kind of get crazy and try try as much as we can. And kind of create its own little song, its own tune, whatever that might be.
Wayne Lemmer 6:07
He’s got such a good year, he really does come up with something great. At the end of the day,
Timothy Muirhead 6:12
let’s talk about your both of your roles. You’re both listed as sound supervisor, and re recording mixer who was tackling which food groups for this film, the French dispatch,
Wayne Lemmer 6:21
I usually handle most of the sound effects. And then Chris concentrates on the dialogue and music. That’s usually how we break it up. Like on the French Dispatch, Chris cut some sound effects and some sound design as well. But normally, it’s mostly I’ll concentrate mostly just on the effects. And Chris handles the dialogue and music.
Chris Scarabosio 6:39
So we have a good working relationship. I think we understand what he’s looking for. And both Wayne and I have worked on various types of projects that inform our knowledge of the process and Wes is getting what he wants. And that’s kind of ultimately what any director wants, they want to feel like, you know, they’re doing service to their film. And you know, they spend years of their lives working on these things. And the last thing you want to do when you get kinda into the final stages, which is when the sound is finalizing, you don’t want to have a bunch of question marks and you don’t want to disappointment.
Timothy Muirhead 7:19
Where did you mix the French dispatch?
Chris Scarabosio 7:21
Oh, we mixed it to Abbey Road.
Timothy Muirhead 7:23
Oh, wow.
Yeah, so that was kind of fun. And a newer room, neither of Wayne or I had had mixer before, kind of fun to be in the hallowed halls of Abbey Road.
So when you go into a new room like that, obviously Abbey Road has a history unto itself. But when you’re going to be doing something in a room you’ve never been in before, do you have any kind of protocol or something that you might play in the room to settle yourself into how that room sounds?
Chris Scarabosio 7:49
Generally, we’ll bring something that we’re familiar with, and just see how it translates.
Wayne Lemmer 7:53
I think I brought Deadpool to listen to it.
Chris Scarabosio 7:56
Yeah, I think you brought that point might have brought another one a Wes his movies?
Wayne Lemmer 8:00
Oh, yeah. I think we had a highlight dog series as well.
Chris Scarabosio 8:03
Yeah, yeah, that’s right. Yeah,
Wayne Lemmer 8:05
a couple minutes just to kind of see how it feels. That’s all it really takes. It’s mostly just to a confidence check to make sure that the balance of the room is there and and that we feel comfortable.
Chris Scarabosio 8:16
The opening of Isle Of dogs has some taiko drums, and I definitely wanted to listen to that sequence. And because a low frequency and basically every room is pretty different. That’s the thing that always the surrounds. And low frequency for me always seems to be the things that that kind of are the most different from room to room. Dialog is either, you know, you’re either within range, or it’s like something weirds going on, for sure. I think it’s just the nature of low frequency and the size of the room. You know, you kind of get a sense of how it’s how the low frequency is moving around in the room.
Timothy Muirhead 8:57
Do you work in lots of different rooms? Or is this an unusual thing for you to go to Abbey Road.
Chris Scarabosio 9:02
Nah, I’m mixed in a bunch of different rooms, we’ve mixed in a couple of different places in London, three of the movies have been in different stages. We mixed at De Lane Lea, we mixed at Gold Crest. I think Gold Crest was booked at that point. So we ended up in Abbey Road.
Timothy Muirhead 9:18
One thing that I found in the French Dispatch and I guess a lot of other Wes Anderson films, there is a lot of sequences that I don’t know if montage is the right word, but there’s narration going on. While, tons of stuff is happening on screen. And as well as the narration there’s normally some kind of signature music, but then you also have to find holes within all that to fit the sound effects for what is happening on the screen. And I was wondering if you could kind of break down your approach on how you tackle what gets the sound effect what to push up what to pull down and what to focus on.
Wayne Lemmer 9:49
The way we break it down on this one on his movie specifically is we really try and focus in on on just those moments. You know, like I think simplicity is better. So those moments shine not so many layers, you know,
Chris Scarabosio 10:05
Wes, like his visual style, I think his audio style has a kind of a rhythmic quality to it. I think there’s a kind of a propulsion with all the activity that’s happening. There’s like a pacing, he does, especially with the voiceover work, where you know, the voiceover kind of leads, kind of hands off to either the music or the sound effects. And he’s building a montage of all these bits and pieces of between the sound effect and the dialogue and the music, that just it creates this tapestry that really makes in a very kind of immersive environment, you know, the element of kind of motion through through various sets, they just kind of fun, I just liked the way the atmosphere is changed the reverbs, change the, the surfaces, change the storytelling, and we just try try things. And sometimes it gets too chaotic. And sometimes, you know, we start playing around with, you know, maybe losing an instrument out of the score, or delaying a line or moving, you know, moving a line later or earlier, or moving a sound effect earlier. And it’s kind of you just it’s kind of a feel thing, you know, once you once you get all the pieces in its right place, you kind of everybody kind of sat in like, yeah, that’s that feels right. But there’s a lot of pre production that goes into it. You know, he’s very particular. And a lot of it, you know, you kind of plan it out, and then maybe, maybe the score changes, or maybe the effects change. And, you know, you just kind of find out what feels right.
Timothy Muirhead 11:51
How close to picture lock is the picture when you’re getting it for those types of sequences.
Chris Scarabosio 11:56
It kind of changes from time to time.
Wayne Lemmer 11:58
Yeah, for sure. Like, I would say, when we get close to the final mix, most sections are fairly close to being locked, you know, he has a pretty strong vision of what he wants. But you know, like, as, as we work on it, for sure it we do changes all the time. I start really early, I think is because sometimes sections, he wants to make sure it works. And so he wants to have it all kind of complete before he makes the decision on the pacing and the rhythm of it all. So yeah, I think it definitely decided some cuts, for sure. You know,
Timothy Muirhead 12:30
so in this film, the French dispatch, it’s kind of got a bit of a multimedia feel to it. There are whole sections that are animated, there are other sections that are shot in studio, other sections that are shot on location, there’s also sequences, that kind of our claymation is not the right word, but use models. Do you approach these different sequences and sound differently? Or do you try and keep the sound consistent
Wayne Lemmer 12:53
overall, we we definitely set out to make it kind of adhere to kind of like the old French cinema, you know, so we really tried to create that atmosphere
Chris Scarabosio 13:02
and the animation, it’s it’s kind of its own unique animation. So it’s not like fully fleshed out, you know, 30 frames per second motion, you know, there’s kind of, it’s a little more stop action ish, you know, so it’s a little more interpretive, a little more impressionistic, the sound against picture,
Wayne Lemmer 13:22
when I see those animatic sections, I definitely go out in a different way. I don’t try and cover everything I try and make it more specific. And I guess cartoonish in a way, but not not super cartoonish. But you know, and then more, just hitting the moments kind of section.
Chris Scarabosio 13:39
It’s almost like those older films where you know, you’re kind of missing some frames, it lends itself to not being as complete and a little less defined in a way you hit the big moments that are kind of story points, and then everything else, you kind of feel what it needs.
Timothy Muirhead 13:56
The film is kind of broken up into three main parts with a couple other smaller parts in there, too, I guess. But the, I believe is the second one, the part that takes place mostly in a prison is narrated outside of the prison by someone giving art lecture. That lecture is sometimes narration sometimes it’s p.a. in front of the art lecture. How did you navigate when to give that treatment and when to leave the narration kind of on its own.
Chris Scarabosio 14:21
It’s kind of an aesthetic choice. There’s the idea of when you’re close to somebody that even though they’re talking into a microphone, you’re hearing their voice a little more per se, then like the amplified p.a. part of the voice. So there’s kind of stages of that. You know, once we kind of found the the right room, the right space. It was kind of blending the whole room and the kind of P.A. aspect of it, versus the actual voice and it’s, you know, part of it is is what you’re seeing on screen informs that decision. But sometimes there’s kind of a comic element to it. When she like dives down below the..
Timothy Muirhead 15:09
podium,
Chris Scarabosio 15:10
yeah, the podium. And you know, so it’s like, it gives you an opportunity to kind of play with that whole aspect that anyone who’s been in that situation or any kind of similar situation where it’s just like, What is going on, and you kind of anything that kind of create that. That feeling of like chaos is, even though everything seems very controlled as a bit of chaos going on
Wayne Lemmer 15:33
Christian a lot of great stuff. Like there’s definitely a lot of different kinds of perspectives and treatments on the vocals, throughout. He definitely changed it up. Like if you’re on a close shot ever versus like we’re in the audience. You know, there’s a lot of really cool perspective shifts that he did with EQs and verbs and stuff.
Chris Scarabosio 15:51
Thanks Wayne.
Wayne Lemmer 15:52
Yeah. No Problem.
Timothy Muirhead 15:54
Well, thank you very much for talking us today. It’s been great having you on. And I look forward to hearing what you guys are up to next. Are you working on the next Wes Anderson film?
Wayne Lemmer 16:03
Yeah, we’re I’m currently working on it right now. Yeah.
Timothy Muirhead 16:06
Excellent. Well, I look forward to hearing it. Thank you very much. We’ll talk sometime soon hopefully.
Chris Scarabosio 16:10
Alright, thanks a lot.
Wayne Lemmer 16:11
Thank you.
Narrator 16:14
Tonebenders is produced by Timothy Muirhead Rene Coronado and Teresa Morrow. Theme music is by Mark Strait. Send your emails to info at Tonebenders podcast.com. Follow us on Twitter via at the tonebenders and join Tonebenders podcast on Facebook. Support this podcast. You can use our links when you shop at Amazon or b&h or leave us a tip. Just go to tonebenderspodcast.com and click the support button. Thanks for listening.
Timothy Muirhead 16:46
Are you looking for more audio related podcasts to listen to? Tonebenders is part of the Audio Podcast Alliance featuring a handpicked selection of the very best podcasts about sound. Be sure to hear the latest episodes from our friends in the community at audiopodcast.org.
Hey, everybody, I just want to tell you a quick story before we wrap up this episode. I mentioned in the opening intro about how I saw Rushmore at the Toronto Film Festival and fell in love with the film. The interesting thing about that screening was it was in a huge theater like 1000s and 1000s of seat theater called the Uptown which has been torn down since then. This is one of the last years the festival ran at that theater. It’s now some kind of giant condo I’m sure. Anyway, it was a huge theater and it was a sold out performance, and Owen Wilson and Wes Anderson did a q&a afterwards. When they finished everybody, you know rolls out into the lobby and goes out and when 1000s of people were all going out, I had to get to another film. So I went out the fire escape behind the screen, which I wasn’t supposed to do. But I wanted to get out of there quick. So I opened the door step out. There’s no one in the back alleyway at all except for one person who’s leaning against the wall. And it’s Steve Buscemi. He’s just standing there. I’m not really sure why but he looked at me. And he said, you know where you can get a good pizza around here? And I said why, Yes, I do. So I took him about two and a half, three blocks away to a really good pizza place called Amottos. And we just chatted we didn’t I didn’t even really tell him that I was aware he was Steve Buscemi. We just kind of walked and talked and he asked me questions about Toronto. He hadn’t shot a film there yet, but I think he was coming to shoot a film, might have been trees lounge actually the one he was directing. I can’t remember the exact details because it was you know, 25 years ago. The main thing we did was actually pick apart Rushmore, we both love the film and we just kind of talked about what our favorite parts were and how great the acting was and how great the script was. And he was a big fan of the movie just like me. But it was the coolest thing to be just walking down the street talking to Steve Buscemi, as if we were old friends, it was this really interesting moment in my life. And it was a nice little coda to seeing this film, which is one of my favorite films, and Steve Buscemi is not even in that film. But I guess he was there to see it because he’d heard how great it was. But yeah, so that’s the story of me going out for pizza with Steve Buscemi. Anyway, stay tuned. We have some really interesting episodes coming up. We got a couple roundtables coming your way this month, and a bunch of other interesting films and TV shows that we’re going to cover so stay tuned. Thanks for listening to Tonebenders. On behalf of myself, Tim Muirhead, Chris Scarabosio and Wayne Lemmer thanks for listening.
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