The Following is an AI generated transcript of this episode. Please excuse any typos or translation mistakes made by the algorithm .
Tim 0:29
Hey everybody, welcome to Tonebenders. My name is Tim and I will be your host for today. Before we go into the main interview with our special guest, Stewart Wilson, I just want to give a quick disclaimer that this interview is now a couple months old. We did the interview the day Rise of Skywalker came out, which is a movie we just barely touch on because I hadn’t seen it yet. We talked mostly about 1917, a little bit about The Two Popes. Since then, obviously Stewart Wilson has won the Oscar for Best mixing along with the rest of the recording mixers on 1917, super Congratulations to Stuart! One of the reasons it took us so long to get this episode out is we’ve been very busy, including doing a Tonebenders road trip to Austin, Texas, which was super fun. And I want to send out a massive thanks to everyone who came out to the Tonebenders meetup we had in Austin. The turnout blew our minds and can’t believe how many people were there. How many cool people were there. People are doing awesome work in Austin, Texas. I think if you go there, you will leave thinking, why don’t I move there. That place is amazing. So we’re going to have some really great interviews and roundtables that we did in Austin coming up, we’re going to pepper them in over the next couple of months. So stay tuned for that. We also have a road trip coming up in September to Los Angeles. So if anyone has any good ideas of people we should be talking to, places we should be seeing in Los Angeles. Maybe we can even set up a meet up there. If you think that would be interesting, shoot us an email at info at tonebenderspodcast dot com and give us any ideas for something that we should do while we’re in Los Angeles in this coming up September. Okay, so let’s roll to the interview Stuart Wilson, a super nice guy with a credit list that is enviable just about anyone you’d ever want to meet. So, let’s go to that.
We have a very special guest with us today. Between myself and guest Stewart Wilson, there are five Oscar nominations, a ton of BAFTA nominations, a load of CAS Award nominations. Sadly, of course, these are all for Stewart, I have none myself. He has worked on some of the largest franchises this century including five different Star Wars films, half the Harry Potter films, a bunch of Bond films, including my fav Skyfall. Some non tentpole type films that he’s worked on include Edge of Tomorrow, another one of my favorites, Warhorse, Eastern Promises and a real gem of a film 24 Hour Party People. I can watch that every day for the rest of my life. I love that film. He’s worked on three films that are almost coming out simultaneously this winter Star Wars rise of Skywalker, The Two Popes and 1917. I was lucky enough to catch an advance Screening a few weeks ago of 1917. And this is a spectacular achievement in filmmaking. Stuart, welcome to the show.
Stuart 3:07
Hey, good to be here, Tim. Thank you.
Tim 3:09
No problem. I’m glad you could join us. 1917, this film is set up so that, to the viewer it appears to be one continuous take from beginning of the film to the end. This is a rare technique that I’m not sure it’s ever been attempted on a scale this large. When you were first told about it by Sam Mendes, or whoever first approached you, did this inspire excitement or intimidation in you?
Stuart 3:31
I think a mix of excitement and intimidation. Yeah, it was obviously gonna be a huge challenge and sound would be a key storytelling element. You know, the sound of our lead character, Schofield, is key. Whether we’re close or distant from him, you know, I wanted them to be able to choose to use the sound, to zoom in and hear his breathing, his struggle, his emotional state if we want to or be more distant and hear him at a distance in the in the landscape he’s in but he had a very clear vision for the film and I didn’t want him to kind of be restricted by the the normal sort of technical restrictions that we have in in capturing good audio. Yes, it was great to just he’s such a master filmmaker. I just wanted to hear his vision of it and then see how I could accommodate that technically, to not get in the way of this process.
Tim 4:20
Yeah, I don’t think I mentioned in that long intro that you were the production sound mixer on this production. So because it’s one continuous shot, the camera is going 360 degrees around the characters at times. So you can’t have a boom operator, you know, standing in the shot because the camera is going to see them eventually. So how did you go about tackling this?
Stuart 4:39
Well, we did have a boom operator. I mean, my first thought was to carry my rig documentary style and follow in the blind spot behind the camera, but in planning it out shot by shot it emerged that number one, I’d be adding another set of unwanted footsteps to the sound and number two, it wouldn’t always be physically possible to keep out of shot. So I needed a plan B anyway and number three – for the whole choreography to work, it was essential that a number of key crew could hear the dialogue live wherever they were stationed. And I would need to be able to broadcast the live mix to the director, camera crew, special effects, script supervisor, video system, etc. And they could be half a mile away over a hill. So a documentary approach wasn’t going to work for this one.
Tim 5:28
Wow. So how did you go about it them?
Stuart 5:31
Well, it became a bit like a site specific installation for each set that we had antenna networks and hundreds of yards of fiber optic cable. We had antennas in munitions boxes, sandbags, piles of mud, I got the guys who were making the sandbags for the army there to make us some special bags from that same cloth to hide our antennas in, and got some artificial grass as well, smeared it in mud and wrapped some of our equipment in that. So it could be kind of hidden on the set. So, yeah, it was a lot of planning. And the great thing in Sam’s process was that the planning was was key to all the departments.
Tim 6:15
So how much rehearsal went into getting this working?
Stuart 6:18
There was quite a long rehearsal period, which started out just with Sam, and the actors pacing out the dialogue. And using cardboard boxes or stakes in the ground to mark the trenches. So they could see where the dialogue, the rhythm of it, where characters had to get to each time, and then the set was built around that. So there were no accidents, it was all about this rehearsal process, it allowed us to know where the camera would be with the actors. We could plan, where we could be, and you always learned something from rehearsal. So I mean, putting wireless mics on even if the costumes aren’t finalized, you always learn something. So it was a great sort of practice run, for The shoot. To having these rehearsals and seeing if we could achieve the distances that we needed to achieve in terms of our transmission and rebroadcast.
Tim 7:09
Yeah, you’re pushing the technology a bit to its limit there.
Stuart 7:12
Yeah. But I felt, you know, the essential thing for the continuous shot vision that Sam had would be to stay connected to our lead characters throughout the journey. So their dialogue, their movements, and their breath had to hold the connection with the audience. So while it was a technical challenge to keep cover, and the territory was challenging. You had long deep trenches, battlefields, broken buildings, special effects, and there had to be a way of capturing the story in these circumstances, but it was very exciting and compelling to do that. I hope that comes across in the film.
Tim 7:50
Well, I was impressed with how clean the dialogue was when I was watching it because you are obviously up against a lot of technical difficulties, but you don’t feel it while you’re watching the movie, I wasn’t straining to hear anything. And so how were you mic-ing them in terms of the wireless? Just under their shirts? Or were you getting….
Stuart 8:08
You know, I, I like to be involved on a film as early as possible. And I was able to work with the costume department and to collaborate and find ways of hiding mics in the costumes that was going to work for us. We had a, an experimentation period where we could come in. The British military uniforms are wool based, which is kind of scratchy and difficult, whereas the US Army mostly was cotton based, I think, and that’s kind of a lot more friendly for wireless mics, but I was able to get in before the costumes were finalized. And you could see how you know, when a piece of wool was stitched to a piece of leather, was that going to be quiet enough? Where could we get the mics in so that they would be protected from the wind, but also give us the transparency for the voice that we needed. And how with the aging treatments that they use with wax and modern oil. How would that affect things? So some things were remade and sometimes one costume would work and another one wouldn’t. And we were able to kind of look at why is that? So that was great. And so the mics were kind of pretty much built in to the uniforms. By the time we came to shoot, but George McKay, our lead actor, I have to thank him for his patience and collaboration as well, because he at one point, I had four wireless mics on him at the same time just to cover all the the range of movements and head turns and things that he was going to be doing. And also when he went in the river, because wireless signals drop off severely underwater, he had two body worn recorders on him as well so that as he came up to gasp for air that was being recorded, even if if we lost range on him,
Tim 9:58
So what were the mics that you use in underwater scenes or in water scenes?
Stuart 10:02
We used Sennheiser mke1. it’s pretty small and pretty robust. And I’ve found that they cope, okay in wet situations.
Tim 10:15
That’s always good to know because you don’t want to be putting something in that’s not going to work. So I guess you’ve had experience with that? There’s probably been underwater sequences in the Harry Potter films and stuff like that. So you’ve done it before, I assume?
Stuart 10:25
Yes, done a bit with different microphones at different times. So sort of evolving. The problem is the companies, the manufacturers keep coming out with better products. So we keep having to spend money to just to get that tiny improvement on the gear.
Tim 10:43
yeah, so you mentioned earlier about how you were able to interact with both the costume department and I guess the directing department, I know you were able to go to the rehearsals, that’s something I think you maybe have more say in because you have all these previous huge films that you’ve worked on and award nominations? How do you suggest to someone that’s maybe earlier in their career for finding ways to get sound thought about earlier in the stages of production?
Stuart 11:11
Well, from a purely practical point of view, I think production companies, they generally try and keep you away at arm’s length for as long as possible, because they don’t want to have to start paying you. So I usually get some prep in my contract. But how I do that is I would say, well see, I had three weeks prep and on a small film, or someone starting, say they had a couple of days prep, I would say, let me do half a day, you know, five weeks out, and have all those conversations. And then I’ll do another half a day, three weeks out, and so on. So to pop in, speak to costume, speak to special effects, talk to the electricians about where their generators going to be. All that kind of nuts and bolts stuff. So that you’re not having to turn up on the day and say there’s a whole load of problems. And then people are going to be unhappy because they haven’t got it in their schedule to to fix those problems. So if you convince them that you don’t need to be paid for that prep time, then it’s well worth doing that prep time. However you can get in there to have those early conversations. So people have got sound in mind when they’re designing and choosing fabrics and so on.
Tim 12:24
And Sam Mendes, do you feel like he’s got sound in mind a lot.
Stuart 12:27
I think he does. Yeah, I think because I’ve worked with him on two other films. So there was a trust relationship that we didn’t have to discuss it too much. But he’s, oh, you know, he’s listening when we’re shooting. So if he’s got any issues or questions, then we can discuss them, but I think he he placed a lot of trust in us to take care of the sound so he could be taking care of everything else.
Tim 12:51
Well, that’s a nice to be trusted.
Stuart 12:53
Yes. Yeah. Yes,
Tim 12:55
it’s well earned. I’m sure.
Stuart 12:56
Well, I’m just starting a movie now. I wouldn’t say what it is. But the first couple of days have been partly about building up the trust with the director. So even with a lot of experience, it’s still everyday you have to come up with the goods and that the directors may be hearing something he’s not used to hearing or it’s a different set of headphones or different IM, but he’s just, you know, they might be nervous, and you have to build that all over again. So, yeah, it’s not taken for granted.
Tim 13:25
Do you have any advice for ways to get the director to trust you other than obviously, delivering nice tracks.
Stuart 13:33
I think the headphones or whatever the directors listening through is very important. That’s our link with them. And directors more than ever are used to listening to good quality audio and good quality systems because on your phone, you can listen to incredible audio reproduction, so you’re not going to get away with a dodgy old tessy comtech anymore. You have to you have to pay attention to that link and put a bit of time and investment into making sure they’re going to be hearing it as good as they can. And if there’s any issues, then invite them to come and listen to playback from your recorder directly. So they can hear, and you can reassure them that this is what they’re getting, and it’s good and it’s going to be good in the film.
Tim 14:21
So speaking of recorders, what’s your weapon of choice?
Stuart 14:24
I use the Cantar X3 recorder. It’s a French machine, 24 tracks – it is great. Is has 8 fabulous preamps which can cope with a lot of dynamic range, it’s got good limiters and yeah, that’s what I like.
Tim 14:43
How long have you been using that for?
Stuart 14:45
Um, I’ve been using it a few years now before I had the Cantar X2, which I used for maybe 10 years to work on. It was a great machine.
Tim
Better be for the price.
Stuart
Well, that’s it. But then but then a lot of my colleagues, they went for different manufacturer’s recorders. In the 10 years that I was using that, they had maybe three or four different ones. So it kind of paid for itself in the end.
Tim 15:15
Fair enough. In North America Cantar isn’t quite as popular as sound devices and Zaxcom. And the there’s like a weird war between the sound devices and Zaxcom people, it almost comes down to interface, like how they can get around quickly within it, the way they know how it works with their brain. But the Cantar, every time I’ve seen one you just almost want an angelic spotlight to come down on it because it’s so unique looking and it always sounds amazing….. So, to continue our talk earlier of inter-departmental communication, how much communication do you have with the post sound people when you’re working on a film, let’s use 1917 as an example.
Stuart 16:00
Well, when I started working in prep for the film, Sam Mendes sent me the script. So 10 months ahead, and you know, knowing about his vision that far in advance, gave me the chance to get ideas together, to secure a really talented crew, and very importantly, to connect with the other creative departments involved, including the sound post team. So Oliver Tarney was the sound designer. I’ve known Oliver for years, but this was the first chance we’ve been able to work together. And also on his team, the dialogue editor Rachel Tate, who was pretty key to making sure that probably 95% of the production audio was what was used in the end. So Oliver and I discussed the need for the sound to extend the world beyond the frame, and he had ideas for that, about recording in stereo. And so on the booms, we had additional microphones pointing sideways to capture that world and give us width as we traveled through the trenches in the landscape. So that was a way of helping the audience to experience that passing through the soundscape with our heroes. So yeah, so I had early conversations with Oliver, but not too much during shooting.
Tim 17:15
You’ve got your hands full at that point? Yeah. Do you get any feedback from the post team?
Stuart 17:19
Yes. Yeah, I mean, we try and keep in touch and make sure they’re happy with everything. If there’s any wild tracks they might need. Or if they have any issues, you know, we like to keep the door open to keep that dialogue going. So that we’re able to chat and just keep talking and how it’s shaping up and the way we see things going. And so,
Tim 17:39
so, after you finish a film, you get a phone call from the dialogue editor, or the post supervisor saying You did a great job. Is that something really rare? Do you find that once you finish and deliver your tracks, you’re moving on to your next project and you’re not thinking about that one anymore? Do you appreciate them reaching out to you? I guess I’m asking?
Stuart
My gosh, yeah, you know that is good. That’s what keeps us going. You know, it is probably rare because everybody’s in their own little world. But it is, you know, when you get that feedback from post and they’re happy the tracks, that’s, that’s amazing. That keeps my guys going, my team as well, you know that they just want to know how the post was, if you get a little a call or an email, you know, those are the people that they see it in all its, you know, raw form. So if they have good feedback, then that’s gold, for sure.
Tim
Well, I guess the ultimate feedback is that Sam Mendes keeps hiring you. So he’s obviously happy with the previous film you worked on?
Stuart 18:44
I guess. Yeah, I mean, it was it was such a privilege to be on it. And I think this is the most collaborative film I’ve worked on. So you know, I was really chuffed to be part of this team.
Tim 18:54
Yeah, I can imagine when I was sitting in the theater, it’s an adrenaline rush in a unique way for a film. It’s a very unique film, the emotions that it brings out in you as you’re literally sitting on the edge of your seat at times. So the other another movie that you worked on this year is The Two Popes that’s a bit of a different spectrum there.
Stuart 19:14
Yes, very different. But in terms of the sound, I mean, I think it’s great. We had a great post production team as well. But it was very interesting because we shot in real places. And we were in Argentina, where Pope Francis comes from, we were filming in the slums, going back to places where he preached and you go into the slums, and there’s so much going on. There’s so much noise, there’s dogs, there’s music, there’s shops selling stuff, there’s people making barbecue in the street, and, you know, a lot of the slums where they live is right under the freeway with, you know, an aircraft going over. So we think, well, we can’t control this and also, we’re coming into their neighbourhood to shoot. People from Britain and start trying to lock things down. But you want that life in the sound. But you know, your instinct is to try and lock everything down. So you get clean dialogue. So quite a lot, I would have a second recorder with an ambisonics surround mic setup so that we were capturing all that noise and life and energy at the same time as we’re recording the dialogue so that in post production, the dialogue editors if they needed something to bridge edits or something that they wouldn’t just have to be adding more unwanted noise but they would have the synchronous noise or whatever character full sound was going on at the time.
Tim 20:39
Did you get any feedback on how that worked?
Stuart 20:41
Yeah, I think they were happy with it, they managed to preserve so much of the production track in these noisy places. That’s what we ended up using that there was a particular challenge with that, perhaps I shouldn’t go shouldn’t go into that until it’s been out and all the stories have been told but it was great because we shot for real in Italy and in Argentina. so we were able to get all the sound of that and the editor, Fernando Stutz, is a fabulously creative sound editor as well as a picture editor. So I think he really made the most of it and brought his own creative input to the track as well. So I was really pleased with the result!
Tim 21:16
Definitely a change of pace from 1917 and Rise of Skywalker.
Stuart 21:20
Yeah, but it’s great. I’ve done films like that like Mary Magdalene as well, which was another independent film, which, you know, hardly anyone got to see but doing these smaller films on location is fun. You don’t want to be stuck in a studio all the time. It’s great to get out on the road and be you know, just improvising..
Tim
Gets the adrenaline going. I guess it happens both ways. Star Wars came out today. I actually have tickets to go see it later today. It’s morning here where I am. So I’m going to be seeing it later today. So I don’t have any insightful questions ask you on that one because I haven’t seen it yet. But I assume that it was your what was it your fourth or fifth Star Wars film, your fifth one
Unknown Speaker 21:59
fifth. Star Wars film. Yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s sort of difficult to believe that we’re here at the end of the last trilogy of the trilogy’s because I worked on episodes seven, eight and nine. The Rise of Skywalker is its climax. But yeah, I mean, I just I couldn’t have dreamed of being somehow part of this world. You know, when I started out as an intern, coiling cables. So there’s a good degree of pinching myself going on when you see these massive billboards of the Star Wars movie and you think I want to go see that and I think hang on a minute, I spent six months of my life working on it. But the Star Wars team have given me so much. JJ Abrams, as most people will tell you is a dream director. He’s a true fan. He brings a feeling of celebration to the filming process and you work with that sense. You’re all in it for the love of it, really. So it was amazing. Also, you know, so many of the crew are passionate about it. You know, they’re they’re doing what they’ve always dreamed to do. So, yeah, it’s when things are challenging that goes a long way.
Tim 23:04
For sure. What order did you shoot these three films?
Stuart 23:06
what the Star Wars films?
Tim
No. Star Wars, Two Popes and 1917?
Stuart
Oh, I see I see. Star Wars was first than the two Pope’s then 1917.
Tim 23:16
Yeah. Okay. Wow. Well, that’s quite a year for you because all of those films, well the reviews aren’t really out yet for Star Wars. I guess they’ll start rolling in today. But definitely the other two everyone has got nothing but praise for them. And I’m sure everyone’s going to love the Star Wars. I’m looking forward to going seeing it myself. So congratulations on being so busy this year on such prestigious films. It’s amazing.
Stuart 23:37
Yes, it is amazing. I think there can never be a year, another year like this. It’ll be all downhill from here, but no….
Tim 23:45
Yeah, you might as well just pack it in!
Stuart 23:46
Yeah.
Tim 23:48
Well, thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us today. We really appreciate it.
Stuart 23:51
Okay, Tim. Yeah, good to talk to you. Take care. Bye. Bye now.
Pages: 1 2